I think Nellie set the precedent . . .

[moderator]

. . . for changes with Elizabeth.

Hi, everyone! I have stayed out of the Elizabeth debates. For one thing, I hate being negative. So I'll try really hard not to be! [img]smile.gif[/img]

My opinion is that we should have expected changes to take place with Elizabeth. Nellie is also much different than originally portrayed in the books. She's mentioned in Samantha's mystery book as being a brunette. Nellie's hairstyle also changed substantially. She originally had a mass of bangs and very short hair (only to the cheekbone, and then tapering down), almost like a boy's haircut.

Yet Nellie still apparently sold well. This told American Girl that customers don't have loyalty to the original concepts in the books and that changes are okay. I wouldn't be surprised if other friend dolls also do not resemble the book characters. If you're upset with the changes, just remember that Nellie already was changed quite drastically. The success of her line probably showed AG that it's okay to change the characters' appearances. I don't personally see Elizabeth's changes as being any more drastic than Nellie's. At least Elizabeth still has the same hairstyle as she did in the books. Nellie's hair color and hairstyle changed.

I personally have a lot of loyalty to the books. Sixteen years ago I regularly checked them out from the library and read all about Kirsten, Samantha, and Molly. I personally can't accept such drastic changes with the characters within the stories. I don't think AG should make these changes. Nevertheless, I think it's okay for customers to like the changes and purchase the "made over" character dolls. Buying Nellie and Elizabeth technically says, "AG, it's okay for you to change the characters from how they appear in the books." But that is people's right. Besides, the changes keep me from buying any more dolls, which is probably a good thing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[mayergirl]

It's funny, because everybody keeps saying that they changed Nellie, and as soon as I saw her, I thought she was EXACTLY what Nellie should look like, lol. I thought her hair was a bit longer, since as Samantha's new sister, she would be allowed to grow her hair out 'cause it wouldn't be dangerous anymore. Her hair color is pretty much the same as it is in my Sam books from the early 90s. I mean, I thought the changes they made to Nellie were insignificant, really. The changes to Elizabeth are quite drastic in comparison. But hey, I bought her, and she's gorgeous.

[cami713]

I also think Nellie looked similar to the books. I don't know why people say she didn't, she wasn't changed drastically. If anything, the changes were quite small.

In the original illustrations, Nellie's hair changes color in pretty much every illustration. From blonde, the strawberry blonde, to very light brown. The color they picked is perfect, IMO, for several reasons. But mostly because it's DIFFERENT. Not a single doll has been released with strawberry blonde hair.

And it's really not all that much longer than in the orginal books, I just figured it had grown out a bit. Not a big deal.

I really wish people would stop pointing fingers, saying that anyone who buys Elizabeth is disloyal to the original company or the books. I would have rather them released Elizabeth as she was supposed to be, but this new doll is pretty, and I'm going to get her, no matter how loyal I am to the books. I am very loyal to the books, they mean as much to me as my dolls do, and I really don't appreciate being told that I am disloyal to the books that hold so much of my childhood just because I think the Elizabeth doll is pretty.

I'd rather see the company make changes than stop making anything at all.

Edit: To prove my point about Nellie's hair color in the ORIGINAL illustrations, (my books are from when there were only 5 AGS, their the "off white" color, I don't have the newer Samantha releases so I can't comment on those),

Meet Samantha-
In the family and friends section, her hair cut is very similar to doll-Nellie's, the same thin bangs, and same cut, the illustration's hair is just a bit shorter, more like Kit's length.
Page 25- Blonde, little shorter than chin length, same bangs as the doll
Page 36- Brown hair, hair is longer this time, bangs like the doll's
Page 43-light brown hair,
Page 50- Dark Brown hair, same color as Samantha's, chin length cut

Samantha Learns a Lesson-
Page 10- dark reddish color, slightly shorter than chin length, same bangs as the doll
Page 15- Medium Brown
Page 24- Medium Brown hair, and it actually is style just like doll Nellie's, only the ribbon is farther back

Changes for Samantha-
Page 31- Blonde, and a bit shorter than any other picture, still same bangs as the doll
Page 41- Blonde, MUCH shorter
Page 55- Blonde, longer than other pictures in book

Nellie's Promise- Of course the illustrations look just like the doll, but her hair doesn't look much different in the previous books.

It would ber very hard to say, based on the original illustrations, what color and style of hair Nellie should have. It changes in nearly every picture in the three books she's in.

I think the strawberry blonde works perfectly. It's short and still to the point about how she had to have her hair short, and it's as close to the hair color she had in the original books, as blonde, or brown would have been, as all were present. And it shows off her heritage that AG decided was suddenly important.

I really think that anyone who has a HUGE problem with Nellie's hair color is being silly, AG did the best they could with the 6 different hair styles she had in the original books. It's really not that different. If they had given her blonde hair, and made it shorter, she would have had almost the same hair as Kit, and I know I, for one, would not be buying them both, the slight changes they made to Nellie insure that I will buy both.

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 12, 2005 04:54 PM: Message edited by: cami713 ]</font>

[moderator]

Originally posted by cami713:

I really wish people would stop pointing fingers, saying that anyone who buys Elizabeth is disloyal to the original company or the books. . . . I really don't appreciate being told that I am disloyal to the books . . .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please reread what I wrote. That's not at all what I posted. What I said is that I personally am too loyal to the original concepts in the books to want to purchase dolls that don't look like the original concepts. However, I went on to say that I feel it is everyone's right to buy whatever doll they want, and never said doing so is being disloyal to anything.

In addition, I questioned why the one reference to Nellie's hair that I have seen in AG books (brown) did not match up to the doll. I wasn't basing this on illustrations, but on text.

Also, although I didn't mention this, I think Nellie the doll's hair length matched the actress' hair length and style in the movie (pre-adoption, etc.). It seems Nellie the doll was made to look more like the actress than the Nellie portrayed in the books. Which I don't have a problem with--I'm just saying this because I think the friend dolls are more of a movie tie-in than a book tie-in. Which is fine. I liked Samantha's movie and I'm sure I'll like Felicity's, too. All I meant by what I said is that I personally can't accept changes. It doesn't mean others can't or are wrong for doing so.

I am hurt that you took my comments in a way completely unintended. I apologize for not wording what I wrote in a way that might have been more clearly understood.

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 12, 2005 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[amandajg]

Well said!

Just an interesting side note... I got the catalogue with Nellie on it last October, back before I'd gotten back into AG collecting, and I didn't recognize Nellie. I thought she was a new character because of her fancy dress. But, that could have been because it's been about 10 years or more since I last read the book. I think the same thing would happen if I didn't know about the Elizabeth release and saw her on the cover of the next catalogue. I wouldn't recognize her because I still remember Elizabeth as the brunette in the yellow dress.

But... AG for the most part has a new generation of collectors now, so it makes sense if they want to make some changes and not stay "canon" to the books.

[cami713]

Melissa, I'm so sorry for jumping on you! I did read what you said wrong, which was entirely my fault, not your wording. It seems as though a lot of people HAVE been acting like it's disloyal to like the newer stuff. I really am sorry for taking out my annoyance in general with you, that wasn't fair at all. I've read a lot of things you've said in the past and you seem to be a fair, non-judgemental person, I don't know why I automatically thought that's what you meant.

I was a bit confused why they said she had brown hair in the Ravenscourt book, too. You'd think they'd be trying to keep with the new doll they'd just released, if nothing else.

I have to wonder about the movies, really. I thought the Samantha one was wonderful, and the Felicity one looks wonderful, too. But, I remember when pictures of the girl playing Elizabeth were first posted/linked to on here, and everyone was all asking why she was blonde, and were they going to make the doll have blonde hair, too? I don't mind the hair color changes too much, but if they're simply changing them for the effect of being able to use the actress they chose, I think that's very silly and unfair.

I agree with you that they should have kept to the books, it would have made far more sense in the longrun. However, I havent seen the newer run of the Samantha books, I hope they, at least, were consistant with the images of Nellie. I think they're assuming most of the fans from the last 5ish years don't even have the slightest idea who Felicity is, let alone Elizabeth. And, although they're probably right, this a terrible way of them saying they don't care at all about the older fans. The change in Nellie didn't bother me at all, because I didn't feel it was much of a change to begin with, but I do think Elizabeth was a bit much. It's not the change in her looks that bother me, but their character changes, making her *SO* wealthy when it's barely implied that she's got more than Felicity.

Again, Melissa, I'm sorry for taking your words the wrong way and being so rude about it.

[KariS]

Originally posted by Melissa:
Also, although I didn't mention this, I think Nellie the doll's hair length matched the actress' hair length and style in the movie (pre-adoption, etc.). It seems Nellie the doll was made to look more like the actress than the Nellie portrayed in the books.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not true. Kelsey Lewis had long dark hair which she dyed and cut to look LIKE the Nellie doll. Production on these movies does not take long. By the time they find the actresses for the parts, the dolls have long been designed. They've shown, at least for the Samantha movie, that it didn't matter how the actress looked in real life as Annasophia Robb, who played Samantha, had blond hair. They certainly didn't cast her based on the fact that she had blond hair knowing Samantha is dark-haired.

I'm sure they knew how Nellie was going to look when they auditioned actresses for her role. They didn't suddenly say, wow, she was really good. Let's cast her and throw away the traditional appearance of Nellie and go back to the drawing board six months before the release of the doll and have all new ones made to look like Kelsey. It just doesn't make sense.

[moderator]

Cami, that's okay--I'm really sorry for the misunderstanding, too. I'm glad everything is okay. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cleopatra, I didn't word that correctly. What I meant is that I think of the dolls as a movie tie-in, so the dolls' hairstyles, etc. match the movie characters more than they match the book characters. (The next sentence says: " . . . I think the friend dolls are more of a movie tie-in than a book tie-in.") I shouldn't have used the word "actress," but instead "character." That still wouldn't explain why they're changing the characters' appearances, but my feeling is that the dolls are meant to tie in with the movie release and match the movie character (or vice versa).

This is why the Samamtha faux pas is so confusing--the mystery book came out after the Samantha movie, and said Nellie's hair was brown! [img]eek.gif[/img]

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 13, 2005 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>